Interview / KANAVA
Kanava is a newly created project that brings the stories of contemporary artisans in Slovakia. Kanava is a platform for people who have decided to invest their time in reviving traditional crafts and creating timeless objects that can serve future generations. Katarína Poliačiková spoke with its founders, Paula Blahová and Kristína Šipulová.
Photo: Kvet Nguyen.
KP: I’ll start with a question that may be a little difficult. If you had to describe Kanava in one sentence, what would it be?
PB and KŠ: It took us longer to define that sentence. We didn’t just want to put the emphasis on the objects themselves, we wanted to retell the story and the motivation that led to their creation. Kanava is a collection of stories about objects and their creators. The story, as we conceive it, combines inspiration, process, object and its creator.
Who is behind Kanava? I know it’s you two, but what’s your background? And what is the story behind the creation of Kanava?
KŠ: Paula, you tell me how I attracted you.
PB: I remember following Kika and her work for a very long time, I liked her aesthetic and what she was doing and I still couldn’t figure out where she was from, that she had a Slovak name, but she struck me as so international. And then, sometime last December, I saw on Instagram that Kristína Šipulová was looking for an intern for her textile studio. I was sitting on a plane from Denmark, where I was living at the time, and I didn’t know if I wanted to stay there anymore. I had no idea what would happen, but I gave it a try and sent her an email. And that’s how I found myself in her textile studio in Bratislava in February.
KŠ: Actually, the first time we saw each other on Skype was when Paula was still in Denmark. Even then I had a feeling that we were on a similar wavelength. The intuition worked over Skype as well. It was quite personal right away, we had a good time talking and later working together.
After a month of working together, Covid came along and suddenly we were wondering whether we should meet or not, and then I left Bratislava and we stayed in touch remotely. It came just at the time when we started working on a tapestry, I was going to have an exhibition in Paris. We missed each other, we called each other a lot. Covid reduced all these work preparations.
One day when I was in Telgárt, we called each other and Paula told me that she had been thinking about the craft itself and that she wanted to do something about it. That there was something missing in Slovakia, one place where resources and people could be found…PB: The story started when I was furnishing my flat and I was looking for a woven carpet. I started googling and I came across sites that offered quality products, but the sites were not done well, the stuff was pretty badly photographed. I thought about it for a while, and then I told to Kika, who had had a similar idea in her head for a while.
KŠ: Yes, I’ve been holding on to that for a long time, I also wrote a thesis about it three years ago – about the importance of craft in the present. Paula’s internship in my studio eventually evolved very naturally into a collaboration, into an equivalence. We said, let’s start working on this together. So Kanava was already created as our joint project. Actually, I was looking for such a partner during my whole studies at the AFAD and I didn’t find it. Even when I put out the offer of an internship, I wasn’t actually looking for just an intern or a trainee, I knew that I wanted to find a close person this way. Inwardly, I longed to find a kindred person for work.
PB: I think we’ve digressed a little bit from the question. For me Kristina was a craftswoman, a textile designer, I was a bit “lost” at the time when we met, I didn’t quite know what direction to take. I was studying Fashion Management in Amsterdam, my specialisation was textiles. I also went on internships, in the beginning it was production and resourcing, which meant a lot of excel spreadsheets, but even then I found that I enjoyed research, searching, I tended towards storytelling. I enjoyed looking for what was behind the design itself, behind the colour we choose. It was thanks to Kristina that I defined that I don’t have to work only with my hands, but also with my head. Basically, we have this division, Kristina is aesthetically based, I focus more on the content, the texts. I think we complement each other so beautifully. Also in that Kristina is more dreamy, I’m the realistic one with my feet on the ground. That management still lives in me. At the same time, I’m learning with her that not everything always has to be exactly defined.
KŠ: By working, I am naturally more sensitive. My background is in the textile studio at AFAD, I tried to travel outside a lot during my studies, to get other experiences. I felt it was quite important. I started to get closer to textile craft during my internship in Denmark, specifically at the Beck & Kinch studio. We were making fabrics for fashion houses like Chanel or Dior. Everything had to be very precise. There I understood something important. Until then, I had the feeling that craft was on the back burner. What I experienced there was the complete opposite – there was craftsmanship on top of everything. People were able to come to it, to pick up something personally from the other side of the world. It had tremendous value, it was precious. And I loved that something so exclusive was made on “ordinary” wooden looms. It was a beautiful, family-run studio started by a mother and daughter. That’s where I understood that it could be done. Of course, we can say that it is to some extent a utopia, that we are talking about Scandinavia, where things work completely differently than in Slovakia. But I was very inspired by it. After I came back from my internship, I started working on my bachelor thesis, which was about weaving and developing new fabrics, and I started weaving on wooden looms. I continued my master’s studies at the University of Applied Sciences, but I went to Paris for an internship at the Edelkoort / Trend Union studio.
That was another inspiring experience. We didn’t work with our hands much there, it was a studio where I picked up a certain aesthetic. That aesthetic and what I perceived as a common language was what drew me there. I gained a lot of insight through that internship, we did in-depth research there, we prepared “trend books”, different presentations for clients, visual identities. I had a lot of books on my desk every day, about photography, about art history. Every day I was immersing myself in what was going on, what all was being created, what young designers were like, what the currents were, how things were interconnected. It was all more of a study, and being in Paris was overall very inspiring. When I came back, I created a collection of handwoven garments as my thesis. I decided to collaborate with the artisans, to translate it all into a coherent project. It was all about the meaning, the philosophy of craft. That’s why Kanava is not based on pursuing something folksy, decorative, it’s more about finding different mediums and artisans who share a similar approach to making. The way we work together in Kanava is that I go into the depth of the craft and its forms, and Paula focuses on the management part.
PB: I think it’s also important here that I’m the girl from Bratislava and Kristina is from Telgárt, and I’ve always envied those traditions of folk culture, which was something distant for me in the environment where I grew up, I wasn’t led to it, unlike Kristina. I think we learn a lot from each other. I’ve always been fascinated by it, and suddenly I have this “folk girl” (laughs).
KŠ: I agree, that background is quite important in my case, the environment has influenced me a lot on my journey.
When I was thinking about what is the essence of your project, I thought of an analogy. When my friend and I first planted tomatoes in the spring, and after three months of tending and watering, we picked the first fruits, put them on a plate and looked at them, we felt like we couldn’t even eat them, they were so special to us. Suddenly there was time behind those fruits, months of watching them bloom, grow and ripen. For me, as a metaphor, it’s related to crafts. In craft, time is a big part and value of the product, the work. People need to understand that there is a quantum of time behind such an object that can become part of their abode – behind its creation. It is not only the time when the object is created, but also the time that precedes it. The amount of trial, error, mistakes, the building of craftsmanship. The object stands at the end of a long journey. I feel that in our environment people are not used to seeing the value of craft in this way, and there is a need for some education. That’s why what Kanava is communicating seems important to me. The value of time.
PB: Most of the craftspeople we present have that story very much connected to their personal lives overall. What they do has come about as a kind of “by-product” of something that was actually their life. For example, Andrea Kurjakova (who founded the Rurozo project) told us that when she went to AFAD, she had a problem with the fact that she liked to write things down on paper, but the notebooks that you could buy somehow limited her. So she just decided to make her own. Or Vierka, who produces wool, first started a farm with her husband and got sheep, as they were very undemanding animals. At the same time, they told themselves that they wanted to make use of everything the farm would bring them. She started shearing sheep and making wool, and found her great passion in it. That’s what I like about those stories – that philosophy that I’m not going to do a “nice thing,” but I’m going to do something because it’s meaningful, because I need to do it myself. That’s when the product is honest.
Making paper scrapbooks, Photo: Andrea Kurjaková.
KŠ: Through the makers we bring together in Kanava, we find that the decision to start making craft usually takes a very long time. It’s similar to someone committing to a big life journey or a new job. That person has experienced things before that lead them to it, craft is often a life decision. Something that springs from within those people. So the objects created are the manifestation of particular lives. That seems to me to be important to mention. A few days ago I read a very nice essay by the architect Louis Kahn, where he writes about the fact that what is most valuable to a person is what is “unmeasurable”, immeasurable. And it is craft that is “unmeasurable”. I found it beautiful how he named it. It’s when one stands in front of something and experiences that kind of “oh, wow”. That’s what happens in front of this type of object, of work. For example, I’m fascinated by the tapestry I’m doing now. You can’t even count the time in hours. When someone asks me how I would quantify the value of my work, based on what unit, I find it absolutely impossible – it’s unmeasurable. And therein lies the fascination.
Something that totally transcends us, a cosmic feeling.
KŠ: Exactly. We humans have created measuring tools, but these things are immeasurable, and that’s why the craft is so fascinating. That time is what creates the fundamental value. It’s the investment of time that makes objects precious, and that value endures throughout the life of the object. Something made from a soft material like textiles will last for millennia because it carries the value of time and also of being treasured.
Portugal came to mind, where a number of initiatives are currently being developed to preserve and develop craft traditions and their links with contemporary design. I will mention, for example, the Passa Ao Futuro project. Portugal and Slovakia are very close in many aspects. As far as crafts are concerned, Portugal also has a great tradition, especially in leatherwork, ceramics, basketry, textiles… There, I think it is quite felt that the continuity of family craft traditions has not been interrupted by the nationalisation of property and the decades long gap in private enterprise, as it has been here. Portugal is known worldwide for its high level of craftsmanship, it represents the production of many global brands, especially shoe manufacturers. I can also think of a very successful project called A Vida Portuguesa. Founded by journalist Catarina Portas in 2007, the brand started out as just a shop in the centre of Lisbon, offering a selection of traditional local products, tried and trusted by generations. Since then, the brand has spread throughout Portugal, becoming known on a global level. The concept of A Vida Portuguesa (translated as Portuguese Life) is built on rediscovering and communicating traditional Portuguese products – ceramics, soaps, wool products and textiles… all wrapped in a nice visual identity, beautiful store interiors. But what I like most about this project is the fact that the products are bought not only by tourists, but also to a large extent by locals. It’s on the one hand a shop with quality and tasteful “souvenirs”, on the other hand traditional and very high quality things for every household. Whenever I am in Lisbon, I always think that I would like to see something similar in Slovakia. I mention this project because it is one way of developing the idea of making crafts more visible and at the same time ensuring the financial sustainability of the project. What is the path that Kanava would like to take in the future? What is your potential “business model”? Does Kanava have the ambition to communicate craft to a wider target group, to make craft products accessible? Or representative of our country towards foreign countries?
KŠ: I think so. But it’s mostly about scaling. A lot of times it’s about the number of pieces, our artisans are often just one person, not a factory that makes things. That’s where it’s a little bit problematic. If the products are to be affordable, you have to be able to scale production without losing quality. Maybe it would be interesting to set up a small manufactory where several people work on the products. That could work, because I think there is a growing interest in crafts among young people at the moment. When you mentioned the Portuguese shop, we are talking about maybe a thousand products of one type of product. And that is a big challenge and a big question. Do we want to put something that is ‘one of a kind’ into serialisation, or do we want to retain uniqueness? I think we, as Kanava, can think about creating some limited editions over time that will be more affordable but still retain a certain specialness.
PB: We have been following various foreign inspirations and projects similar to Kanava for a long time. One project from the Czech Republic came to my mind, it’s called In August Company. They offer, for example, wooden products, or linen tablecloths, some ceramics. They work on the principle that they design their own product and find a craftsman who will make it for them in a series. That’s one way to approach production and accessibility.
KŠ: At the same time, it has to be said that not every artisan is interested in something like this.
PB: We are very keen to make sure that we keep the signature of the particular craftsman or craftswoman. So we’re more drawn to uniqueness rather than mass production.
KŠ: And in terms of some education, there are different ways to think about it. For example, we can also encourage people to think about why they have ten plates at home that they don’t like so much, that they can have much fewer, but more valuable products instead. And in the end, the resulting price will already be comparable to mass-produced ceramics. When educating, you also need to talk about some kind of cycle – if the artisan starts to make good sales, maybe it won’t be five unique pieces anymore, but they’ll create a smaller series. If the customer understands the value of the object, the artisan is more motivated to consider scaling up production. After all, it’s not enough to just write beautiful stories, we realize that the people we are promoting need something to live off of as well. We will certainly never engage in mass production, but I can imagine limited editions of, say, fifty pieces.
Photo: Joanna Joy, Karolína Kučerová.
If I understand correctly, it is important for you to maintain the right ratio of certain rarity and availability.
KŠ: Yes, we certainly don’t want to move from “gallery” pieces to a seriality available to the whole country, but rather to look for some way in between.
PB: What we also really like about this approach is the time aspect, not only in the production itself, but also in the relationship between the craftsmen and the customers. Someone will order something and have to wait for it. That’s what we preach – that quality things just take time. I’ve talked to my parents about this and I’ve found it very difficult to explain to them that we want to promote something that’s not going to be immediately available. They’ve just been through those moments in the last regime where they waited for products and they don’t want to experience that again. I totally get it, I’m the kind of millennial who doesn’t mind having to wait a month for one cup (laughs). But basically, it’s about going from fast to slow. In the speed, we miss the individuality.
KŠ: For us, it’s not about absolute accessibility, but rather to bring people a certain feeling: how to appreciate things more, how to understand them, how to ennoble our own lives by being able to surround ourselves with admittedly fewer but beautiful things that carry a story. If we can do that, we are on the right track.
What kind of people, artisans, have you introduced through Kanava so far?
PB: It’s been all women so far, which I think is such a strength of ours as we are both women as well, but we certainly don’t want to limit ourselves, men can apply too, it’s just not happening yet (laughs).
KŠ: In terms of materials, we’ve featured women artists so far who work with ceramics, paper, beeswax, wood, wool. They are mostly young people.
PB: What’s interesting is that most of them don’t live in the city and are influenced by the environment they grew up in and you can feel it in their work. Every single one of them has a strong story, they all have something to say. When we ask about inspiration, there is always that strong connection between creation and life.
KŠ: We introduce all the artisans through interviews where we send them questions and we are always surprised by the beautiful, detailed, thoughtful answers we get. And what’s even nicer is that these artisans of ours also support each other when they get to know each other through Kanava.
That’s how the “togetherness”, the community that you talked about at the beginning, naturally arises.
KŠ and PB: Exactly, and one day we would bring them together at an event where they could get to know each other more. That’s where we’re also gradually heading, that we would eventually do some kind of launch where we would also launch an e-shop. And we envision it as a beautiful dinner where different objects would be incorporated. We’ll be eating, talking, getting to know each other.
That brings me to the question, what is your foreign inspiration. Can you single out a few platforms, projects that have strongly influenced you?
KŠ: I think that’s obvious. The New Craftsmen, a British organization that has a brick-and-mortar shop in London’s Mayfair. They operate not only in sales but also as a bringing together platform for British craftspeople. Another inspiration is Hole & Corner, a craft magazine, I think they are now starting an e-shop. A slightly different inspiration, which is already going in the direction of art, is the LOEWE Foundation, which I know through Krzysztof Lukasik, who used to work there and with whom I had the opportunity to do a workshop in France.
PB: Just with The New Craftsmen, who we admire a lot, we were looking at how they started, what was their first Instagram post. It was also a bit encouraging to see that things weren’t perfect from the start. We realize that it’s an evolution, a process.
I think this is something we often forget. We want everything to work from the beginning, to click. And yet the projects that we look up to usually have a lot of work and a long journey behind them.
KŠ: Exactly. People have been asking us when we’re going to launch the e-shop, but we want Kanava to grow in a quality, organic way. We want to move forward, but we’re keeping an eye on it,
PB: I have a friend who summed it up nicely when she said you have to start somewhere to get feedback from people. We’re completely open to negative comments as well, we want to grow with our fans.
KŠ: We’re investing our own time in it for now, we didn’t start with a big budget, we just wanted to give it a go.
My last question: what does Kanava look like and do in five years?
KŠ and PB: Well, that’s clear, we’ve already got that in our dreams (laughs). We would really like to do a publication one day. We imagine that by that time we will have an e-shop, and a beautiful space. We’ll do educational programs, events where artisans will talk about what the process of making them is like. Maybe take trips directly to see them. We want to focus not only on the customer, but also on the artisans, strengthening the community, connecting them with each other or with designers. Helping them with presentations, maybe eventually start some consulting for both artisans and clients who don’t know exactly how to get to what. And maybe we could open a “Kanava Academy” where we could do a summer school in some beautiful place in Slovakia.
And focus on young people. So the first idea we had was that the craft is still alive and that it’s worth learning it from the older generations. What we see in young people who are involved in the craft is that they are so…just happier.
Photo: Kvet Nguyen.